“There’s this amazing, amazing commercial that Michael Phelps did, […] and the tagline behind it was ‘It’s what you do in the dark that puts you in the light.’” – Lisa Cawley
We’re doing a three-part series with some of our fan favorites over the last three seasons on the LP perspective of succession-planning and VC firm-building.
Lisa Cawley is the Managing Director of Screendoor, a highly respected LP of GPs, investing in firm-builders by firm-builders, with a unique model for partnering with allocators to access the emerging manager ecosystem.
Ben Choi manages over $3B investments with many of the world’s premier venture capital firms as well as directly in early stage startups. He brings to Next Legacy a distinguished track record spanning over two decades founding and investing in early-stage technology businesses.
Jaclyn Freeman Hester is a Partner at Foundry. Jaclyn helped launch Foundry’s partner fund strategy, building the portfolio to nearly 50 managers. Bringing her unique GP + LP perspective, Jaclyn has become a go-to sounding board for emerging VCs.
[00:00] Intro [02:03] The job that goes unseen by others at a VC firm [09:01] The psychology of curiosity [11:12] The story of Charlie Munger and Robert Cialdini [14:17] Lisa’s perspective on the intangibles of firm-building [17:41] Heidi Roizen and why glassblowing builds relationships [21:09] The people you surround yourself with [23:06] Jaclyn’s perspective on the intangibles [26:23] Examples of how to communicate strategy drift [27:34] Ben’s perspective on the intangibles [33:19] The metric many LPs don’t use but should use to evaluate GPs [36:16] Thank you to Alchemist Accelerator for sponsoring! [37:17] If you enjoyed Part 1, and want to see Part 2 and 3 sooner, leave a like or a comment!
“The job and the role that goes most unseen by LPs and everybody outside of the firm is the role of the culture keeper.” – Ben Choi
“You can map out what your ideal process is, but it’s actually the depth of discussion that the internal team has with one another. […] You have to define what your vision for the firm is years out, in order to make sure that you’re setting those people up for success and that they have a runway and a growth path and that they feel empowered and they feel like they’re learning and they’re contributing as part of the brand. And so much of what happens there, it does tie back to culture […] There’s this amazing, amazing commercial that Michael Phelps did, […] and the tagline behind it was ‘It’s what you do in the dark that puts you in the light.’” – Lisa Cawley
“At the end of the day, the job is to take a pile of money from your LPs and give them a bigger pile. And giving them back a really big pile is the legacy thing. […] And consistently insane returns are hard. That, to me, are the firms that go down in history.” – Jaclyn Freeman Hester
“In venture, LPs are looking for GPs with loaded dice.” – Ben Choi
I went shoe shopping with my partner the past two weekends, and I’ll be the first to plead ignorance to the difference between the B and D suffix for shoe sizes. And even after two weekends, I’m still learning.
I’ve never looked much into shoes. Having spent much of my early life bathed in chlorine (so much that at one point, my hair was brown with blond tips. FYI, for those I’ve never met in person before, I sport naturally black hair.), I’ve spent more time choosing the right $300-400 swimsuit than what I’d wear on my two lower appendages the other eight hours of the day. All that to say, I’m ill-equipped to speak the language of sneakerheads and running shoe geeks.
But just as I’m still learning how shoe geeks around the world understand the finer nuances of heel to toe drop impacting ankle versus knee strain, most founders who haven’t spent the time understanding the nuances of VCs think all money is green. In fact, just last month, I spoke with a founder I randomly met at an event who said, “Money is money.”
And he’s not completely wrong. There is some truth to it. At the end of the day, as investors, we sell money. Moreover, most investors who promise to be helpful are not. As well-intentioned as they are at the time of investment, most fall short of being truly helpful. There are multiple studies that show that founders believe a huge majority of their investors are not helpful.
That said, one of my investor buddies said something quite interesting to me earlier this week. Many founders see investors as saviors not partners. A source of capital to save them when they’re near the gates of hell, but not while they’re building their stairway to heaven. All that to say, as someone who’s been an operator, now a “VC”, but also someone who invests in other VCs, here are some of the nuances I’ve really come to appreciate over the years that I overlooked when I first stepped into the world of entrepreneurship.
Consensus and conviction-driven decision making
Some firms are consensus-driven. Others are conviction-driven. The former requires majority or unanimous buy-in. The latter doesn’t. Neither is universally better than the other, but knowing how decisions are made is extremely helpful. Not only to know who else you need to convince on the team, but also to know how the firm will help you post-investment.
The former is usually a firm where carry is split equally among all partners, so all partners are theoretically incented to see every portfolio company succeed. So as a founder, if you want to rely on the expertise and network of the collective partnership, these are the firms you should pursue. The latter, the conviction-driven ones, are most helpful if you really want one specific partner’s experience. They’ll be the person who takes the board seat. Opportunistically, they may ask for 1-2 junior team members to also have board observer seats. The downside is when and if this partner leaves the firm, there may be a gaping hole in governance as well as interest in the continued success of your company. But otherwise, this will be the partner you will have on speed dial.
I shared a presentation I made recently on LinkedIn. Of which, I share that three kinds of friends in the world. When shit hits the fan at 3AM in the morning…
There’s the friend you call. They see the call. And they go back to sleep.
There’s the friend you call. They see the call. And begrudgingly pick up.
And there’s the friend you call. And as they’re picking up the phone, they’ve got their pants on already and are running out the door with their keys.
Conviction-driven firms, where the partner that pounds the table for you will likely be on you board, or even if not, they’re going to be the third friend. At consensus-driven firms, and I’m clearly being reductive here, you’re more likely — not always — to have the reluctant one or sleepers.
Then it comes down to how the team is compensated. Not something most founders can find out or ask out, but how carry is distributed for each fund matters.
Disagreeableness
I’ve realized a lot of the best investors are quite disagreeable. They have their opinions and are quite vocal about them.
A lot of them quite often score incredibly low on investor review sites. Of course, some just score low on NPS purely because their assholes. But I want to caveat. Assholes are often disagreeable, but not all disagreeable people are assholes.
But it takes a lot of courage to have a contrarian viewpoint that one can back up. You don’t have to agree with it. But it matters. More often than not, these folks will also have negative references. For an LP evaluating VCs, that’s ok. Negative is always better than neutral references. The latter means you’re easily forgettable.
Regardless of whether you agree with these investors or not (equally, if not more true, in great founders), they make you stop and think. And that pause to think makes you a more well-rounded professional, and makes your own opinions more robust when you choose to adopt or not adopt said piece of advice.
There’s a great Steve Jobs line, which I think is quite applicable here. “Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can’t do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.”
Great investors are troublemakers. In a good way.
P.S. To the three verified troublemakers I know who are reading this blogpost, can’t wait for your debut.
Small talk
Small talk was definitely one of those things I was rather dismissive of earlier in my career. Who da hell cares about the weather? Or what you did over the weekend?
But over the years, I realize some of the best investors are remarkably good at this. Not in the sense that they know how to ask great weather questions, but they learn how to build rapport early and quickly. And even better, they get a founder comfortable, honest, and candid about where they are at.
No one’s perfect. Every investor gets that. Most founders often pretend that they are. But a great investor is great at helping a founder realize they don’t have to be, and also get to understand a founder from a personal level. Not jumping straight into the pitch. Or give me your metrics. Or how much are you raising at how high of a valuation?
Radical candor
Borrowing this phrase from the amazing Kim Scott, the best investors are upfront with expectations. They don’t waste your time. Some even go as far as to share what their incentives are. And the harsh reality that they may be wrong many times before they’re right. They don’t beat around the bush. They don’t delay the inevitable. They’re great at ripping bandages off quickly, so they can prioritize their focus on other matters that require more attention. They have tough conversations early and synchronously. The last thing one can ever say about them is that they aren’t thoughtful. It seems remarkably simple, but most cannot do just that.
To be fair, it’s sometimes easier said than done. Even for myself, and I would not even dare to put myself in the category of great, I’ve been berated, gaslit, and shamed (haha!) for giving and attempting to give honest feedback to founders and investors. In fact, I was introed to a fund manager recently for the purpose of giving feedback. When I realized a couple red flags about her fund (namely her raising a $100M fund with no track record), I asked if she wanted feedback. To which, she replied with something to the effect that she only takes feedback from people who invest and that I didn’t deserve to give her feedback.
So I can see why some managers are averse to giving any.
Raising junior talent
I was reminded of this in my recent episode with Rick Zullo. And I noticed Rick is really good at giving credit and lifting up his team. In a soon-to-be-released episode, Eric Bahn from Hustle Fund does the same. I’ve asked him to speak at events before and he’s often referred one of his junior team members to the event. Not as a “I don’t want to do this, so someone else should”, but as a “I believe XX person will be a great future leader of this firm, and I believe others need to hear her insights.” And he’s been right every time.
Building an institutional firm takes more than one person. It takes a village. To build a legacy also requires more than one generation. I often see great investors taking less credit and giving a lot more to their team. Those often hidden from the limelight.
Discipline
Every great investor I know does something consistently every day. They set ground rules and while it’s less so for others, they hold themselves accountable to do so. Whether it’s a cup of coffee brewed from home every morning, or going to the gym on a daily basis or quality time with family or calling their significant other at a set time every day, I have yet to meet an investor who can’t keep to a promise they made to themselves consistently.
Venture capital is a long game, and it’s very possible for these multi-decade games, to be lucky at least once. Good investors, at some point, hit a unicorn. Great investors can discover many before others do. But any more than twice requires extreme discipline and the ability to say no to things that are good to make room for the great. And it’s so much harder than one might think.
And the simplest proxy to an investor’s ability to do so is their ability to fulfill promises to themselves when no one else is looking.
In closing
At the end of the day, not all shoes are the same. Just like not all VCs are. But if all you need is to get from Point A to Point B, and you don’t care for what kind of support you get along the way, VCs, like shoes, may all be the same.
Stay up to date with the weekly cup of cognitive adventures inside venture capital and startups, as well as cataloging the history of tomorrow through the bookmarks of yesterday!
The views expressed on this blogpost are for informational purposes only. None of the views expressed herein constitute legal, investment, business, or tax advice. Any allusions or references to funds or companies are for illustrative purposes only, and should not be relied upon as investment recommendations. Consult a professional investment advisor prior to making any investment decisions.
Felipe Valencia is one of the co-founders of Veronorte, a venture capital investment firm based out of Colombia. In the first decade, Veronorte focused on managing Corporate Venture Programs for some of the largest Corporations in Latam.
These days, they’re diving into a Fund of Funds investment strategy in the Venture Capital space. For the last 12 years, Veronorte has invested in over 25 startups across the U.S., India, Europe, Mexico, and Colombia, and in more than 12 Venture Capital funds, primarily in the U.S.
With over 20 years of experience under his belt, Felipe has dabbled in various fields like robotics, the internet, international trade, and infrastructure project management.
Felipe graduated summa cum laude with a Mechanical Engineering degree from EAFIT University. He also holds a Master’s in Web Communication from the European Institute of Design in Rome and an MBA from the University of Chicago, where he focused on entrepreneurship and finance.
Felipe’s journey has taken him all over the world: He worked for AVG – Robotics in Los Angeles, did research and development in Mechatronics at Siemens in Germany, and was the Commercial and Strategic Director of Indexcol in Colombia. He also served as the Commercial Attaché at the Colombian Embassy in China and led the Proexport office there. Most recently, he was involved in business development at Pierson Capital in Beijing and managed infrastructure projects in Mexico.
[00:00] Intro [02:54] Felipe’s teenage years under a life of terror [10:01] How Medellin has changed over the years [13:12] Tales from Felipe’s travels across 10 cities in 4 continents [17:53] How did Felipe made his foray into VC? [22:46] How did Felipe meet his co-founding partner Camilo? [26:31] How Felipe pitched a VC fund without a track record [39:16] How did Felipe and Camilo think about compensation in Fund I? [47:40] How did Veronorte transition from a VC fund to a fund of funds? [55:14] The Monte Carlo simulation of fund of funds strategies [1:03:04] How much better does a venture fund need to do than public markets? [1:05:46] How did Veronorte get into top tier established funds? [1:12:00] What coffee brand did Felipe bring on his visits to the US? [1:13:38] How did Veronorte close Latam family offices in their fund of funds? [1:17:04] How does Veronorte communicate with their LPs? [1:23:58] The difference between an emerging firm and a frontier firm [1:28:55] Portfolio construction at Veronorte [1:34:50] What podcasts does Felipe listen to? [1:38:19] Felipe’s advice for the wanderlust [1:43:39] Thank you to Alchemist Accelerator for sponsoring! [1:44:39] If you enjoyed this episode, albeit longer, please do leave a like and share it with one friend who’d enjoy this episode!
“Diversification is a good way to control dispersion of returns.” – Felipe Valencia
“Every time they go to a meeting, they go with a present.” – Felipe Valencia, on building relationships
“This is an access class, not an asset class. And to show access, you need to bring these established firms. It’s not that we will invest in any shiny name, and we have passed on amazing firms that have an amazing brand because they don’t fit in our strategy.” – Felipe Valencia
Ben Ehrlich is the founder and General Partner of First Momentum Capital, where he helps seed a new generation of venture capital firms. He is also the Director of Strategy at the Long Term Stock Exhange. Previously Ben worked across the venture ecosystem supporting companies in the Canadian Technology Accelerator, OutCast Communications and Cribspot (YC 15). In his free time Ben takes his Irish setter doodle hiking and enjoys watching the University of Michigan football team (mostly) win.
[00:00] Intro [03:43] The origins of the Out of the Crisis podcast [06:54] Ben’s advice for rookie podcasters [08:35] How did Ben first meet Eric Ries? [11:46] The play-by-play for Ben’s interview with LTSE [13:36] What do decisions and conversations look like at LTSE? [16:23] Building trust among team members [18:29] How does Ben build trust with GPs? [25:14] How did First Momentum Capital start? [30:42] What was the pitch to close First Momentum’s first fund? [33:54] How does Ben underwrite Fund I managers? [36:42] How does Ben measure a GP’s future deal flow (as opposed to today’s)? [45:40] What does a “No” from Ben look like? [57:50] Thoughts on fund governance [1:05:57] What is the role of serendipity in Ben’s life? [1:08:17] Commisso Bakery in Toronto [1:10:35] Thank you to Alchemist Accelerator for sponsoring! [1:11:35] If you enjoyed the episode, I’d appreciate it if you could share it with one friend!
“Make sure to pay the government, doctors, and podcast producers on time.” – Ben Ehrlich
“If you want to build trust with someone [on your team], if they screw up, you have to be okay with them screwing up because you put them in the situation.” – Ben Ehrlich
“We’re looking for concentrated, non-correlated bets.” – Ben Ehrlich
My friend invited me to a demo day earlier this week. Albeit, it was a bunch of summer interns presenting their project they’d been working on for the last two months. The few investors and I who sat on the judging panel were all admittedly quite surprised by the quality of pitches and products from students and hell, even within two months. In fact, these 10-11 interns have gotten much further in product development and customer discovery than most founders I’ve seen across the span of a year. Whether sampling bias or not, the latter is probably about 50%+ of what I see these days. And you’d think that AI would have sped up the product development cycle.
But I digress.
Simply put, I was impressed. So, in efforts to simulate actual pitches at demo days, I asked a team who had presented five features they’d been working on and gotten each to a working prototype. “If you had to kill three of the five features, which three would you kill?”
To which, the “CEO” replied: “To be honest, all five are quite important. But if we had to kill a feature, it’d be the AI chatbot, but the rest of the four go hand-in-hand.”
I pushed for a more discerning answer, but was met with a paraphrased version of the last answer. And of course, it left a little more to be desired. What I was looking for was something of more prescriptive specificity. For instance, “we’d focus on usage metrics, particularly with respect to retention cohorts and actions per session across all the features. And depending on what features seem to perform better than others, our plan is to focus 70% of engineering resources on the top feature, 20% on the second most popular feature, and 10% focused on either a permutation of the other three or spending time with our customers to see where they’re the most frustrated.” It may not need to be the “right” answer, but having a thought-out answer is helpful.
After all, the original question boils down to the fact that most founders fail from indigestion not from starvation. Charles Hudson wrote this great piece last month, aptly named “The Last $250K.” In short, one of the most common behavioral changes he’s observed is when founders are down to their last $250K. And, three things stand out in particular:
“The most important things to work on become incredibly clear.”
“The data needed to validate the company’s hypothesis becomes much clearer.”
“There are things that the company was doing that they stop doing because those things don’t really matter given the gravity of the situation.”
It’s a quick read. And I highly recommend it. Much of which I personally agree with. Not sure if that’s usually the $250K mark, but my personal sample size is far smaller than Charles’. Constraints are the breeding grounds of creativity.
What’s really interesting is that my first reaction to that blogpost was just like how the last 4-6 months of runway leads to deep focus, how do the last 4-6 months affect fund managers? And it’s not too far off.
Deployment speed slows. The simple reason is that they no longer feel the fire under their belly to deploy. Either because they’re close to their target portfolio size or they need to elongate the time horizon while they’re actively raising their next fund.
The quality bar for what gets funded goes up. Since your deal flow pipeline is likely not contracting, there’s a flight to quality. And quality more often than not, translates to traction, logos/brands, and founder’s prior experiences. While there are always outliers, I see many GPs take less risky bets that they would’ve otherwise.
GPs are actively planning for the next fund’s strategy. And actively synthesizing lessons learned. Or at least, with respect with how they pitch LPs. And if they’re an emerging manager, or a fund without clear wins in their last fund, the most important things also become painfully clear. They often focus on the 20% that drove 80% of fund returns.
GPs are spending a lot more time on portfolio support. Not only because graduation rates become a lot more important (for fund returns and narratives for prospective LPs), but also because references matter in diligence. And well, if you’re fundraising for your next fund, you can be damn well sure that a sophisticated LP is going to do anywhere between 10-50 reference checks. On-list and off-list. 20-30% of which with your portfolio companies.
Thematically, focus. While there are other constraints that help improve a founder or a fund manager’s level of focus, limited runway (or capital to deploy) is a natural forcing function. The best ones I’ve seen often impose artificial constraints early on, before things get rough. Rules and codes of conduct. Things they promise themselves and the team never do. Aligning compensation behind performance. In other words, operational discipline.
Naturally, it should be to no surprise that investors of any kind spend a lot of time on organizational discipline before they choose to invest.
Stay up to date with the weekly cup of cognitive adventures inside venture capital and startups, as well as cataloging the history of tomorrow through the bookmarks of yesterday!
The views expressed on this blogpost are for informational purposes only. None of the views expressed herein constitute legal, investment, business, or tax advice. Any allusions or references to funds or companies are for illustrative purposes only, and should not be relied upon as investment recommendations. Consult a professional investment advisor prior to making any investment decisions.
Raida Daouk started her career in banking before moving to the investment team of BY Venture Partner, a venture fund with offices in Beirut and Abu Dhabi. She quickly climbed the ranks within the company and ultimately became a Venture Partner.
Recognizing a void in the market for personalized venture consulting services, Raida established Amkan Advisory, a boutique consultancy firm specializing in assisting family offices and high-net-worth individuals in identifying venture funds that align with their specific strategies. Given that first-time fund managers often possess the most aligned incentives with their investors, she understood the significant value they bring to the venture capital landscape. However, Raida also understood the reluctance of family offices to commit capital to relatively unproven managers. By curating a portfolio of carefully selected funds, she aims to mitigate the perceived risk associated with investing in first-time managers while still accessing the high-growth potential of emerging ventures.
Amkan Ventures emerged to offer LPs access to emerging managers beyond their direct reach. Focusing on small Funds I and II led by ambitious managers with a conviction-driven approach, the firm prioritizes delivering returns and nurturing opportunities in the venture arena.
Amkan Ventures’ first close occurred in April 2024, with one investment already made in a $30M fund I out of NY and one more about to be announced.
Raida currently serves on the Selection Committees of RAISE Global and The Bridge Platform.
[00:00] Intro [02:45] The impact of biology on Raida’s career [06:24] If Raida were to teach a founder psychology course [08:42] Raida’s definition of “running through walls” [10:16] Similarities and differences between founders and fund managers [11:36] What does GP-thesis fit look like? [14:38] How Raida got to a yes on Nebular Ventures? [20:35] The personas of different kinds of references [26:05] The one question that Raida always asks during reference calls [28:31] Is there such a thing as too many references? [31:57] What if you don’t have a network of references as an LP? [35:26] How does one set up the venture arm of a family office? [40:28] What is the GCC? [43:58] The best way to build relationships in the GCC [47:54] The origin story of Amkan Ventures [52:19] How did Raida build a strong understanding of the foodtech space? [53:58] Where did Amkan’s name come from? [58:26] What fund is in Raida’s anti-portfolio? [1:00:30] What’s Raida’s take on solo GPs? [1:03:10] How does your mindset change as an LP if you had evergreen capital? [1:06:58] Thank you to Alchemist Accelerator for sponsoring! [1:07:59] If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean a lot if you could share this with one other friend!
“It’s always best to start the relationship when there is no ask.” – Raida Daouk
“The average length of a VC fund is double that of a typical American marriage. So VC splits – divorce – is much more likely than getting hit by a bus.” – Raida Daouk
“The more constraints you have, the more conviction you will have in each manager.” – Raida Daouk
Lisa Cawley is the Managing Director of Screendoor, a highly respected LP of GPs, investing in firm-builders by firm-builders, with a unique model for partnering with allocators to access the emerging manager ecosystem. She’s been covering venture capital for more than a dozen years, since 2010 at Ernst and Young, a private investment firm, and now to Screendoor.
Lisa is a proud graduate of Loyola University Maryland where she’s earned her MBA and MS in Finance, as well as her BBA in Accounting, with a double minor in Information Systems and Spanish. Lisa is a CFA Charterholder and holds a CPA from the State of Maryland. In addition, she’s also a member of Class 29 of the Kauffman Fellows.
[00:00] Intro [03:43] How swimming has influenced Lisa’s life to date [11:16] How does Lisa evaluate competitive spirit in others? [14:36] The importance of understanding LP side letter terms [21:33] Investing as a team AND individual sport [23:45] Screendoor as the LP of GPs [28:43] How does Screendoor align incentives with their GP advisors? [31:05] How do GP advisors get assigned to portfolio managers? [35:09] LP-GP fit [37:46] Generation 1 vs Generation 5 of a family office [43:19] How does firm-building differ from fund-building? [49:09] Reference checking a fund manager’s “unique” value-add [55:24] Which two life lessons would Lisa canonize in a time capsule? [57:36] What was in Lisa’s last OS update? [1:01:23] The different facets of education in Lisa’s life [1:09:09] Final words on being thoughtful as an LP [1:14:05] Post-credit scene [1:25:27] Thank you to Alchemist Accelerator for sponsoring! [1:26:29] If you enjoyed the episode, I’d great appreciate it if you shared it with 1 other person!
“[Swimming, like venture] is both a team and individual sport.” – Lisa Cawley
“If you are governing things from a point of a legal document, whatever that may be and having to refer to that in order to trigger a behavior, that often to me feels emblematic of a transaction, not a relationship.” – Lisa Cawley
“Performance is everybody’s right to continue to do their business in venture.” – Lisa Cawley
“You can be a critic while still helping somebody, and you can be a critic while still giving empathy and doing so with respect.” – Lisa Cawley
Evan currently serves as Head of Venture Capital Investments and Research for Integra Global Advisors, a multi-family office. Prior to Integra, Evan served as Senior Manager of Data Science for Anheuser-Busch InBev where he oversaw data science and strategy for the US marketing organization. Prior to Anheuser-Busch, Evan spent two years as a Management Consultant at Marketing Management Analytics and held a technical role at Amazon. Evan earned an MS in Computer Science with a concentration in machine learning from Georgia Tech and studied computational and applied mathematics at the City University of New York and finance and psychology at the University of Miami.
[00:00] Intro [03:27] What are the mechanics of a great cold email? [07:54] Evan’s background in sports marketing [10:54] The kinds of data to ignore as an LP [13:01] Portability and replicability of track record [19:57] How much thesis drift is too much? [22:37] What happens when a partner isn’t pulling their weight? [29:35] Why does Evan have two bachelor degrees? [34:38] Why study quantum mechanics in applied math? [38:25] Evan’s journey to Integra [45:21] Buy vs Build at a fund-of-funds [47:40] Questions to ask when choosing which vendor to work with [51:24] How Evan thinks about operational diligence [58:30] Setting up an information policy in your firm [1:01:39] Valuation policy at a hedge fund vs VC fund [1:11:12] Why doesn’t Integra have strict mandates for geographies to invest in? [1:21:20] The fallacy with LPs overweighing DPI in 2020-2021 [1:27:15] Evan’s greatest life lesson [1:28:14] Evan’s favorite kosher restaurants in NYC [1:32:07] “Post-credit scene” [1:34:24] Thank you to Alchemist Accelerator for sponsoring! [1:35:25] If you liked this episode, it would mean a lot if you left a like and shared this episode with one friend!
“It’s important to be data-informed, not data-driven.” – Evan Finkel
“Not only does [an investment] have to be the best in that geography, it actually has to be better than the incremental dollar we could put in any other geography.” – Evan Finkel
“The way we think about VC is both on an absolute and a relative basis. On an absolute basis, we have to be able to underwrite a manager to 3X net or better, or ideally 4X net or better. Because otherwise the lockup doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t make sense to lock up your money for 10, 12, or 15 years with pretty limited distributions. In order to be able to consider a VC fund for our portfolio, we have to be able to underwrite it to at least 3X, but ideally 4X or better.
“But then there’s also a relative component. We’re not looking for the best relative managers. Understanding whether this is a really good year or weak year… You might be the best manager of a given vintage, but in absolute terms, you actually might not be quite as impressive. […] It helps us contextualize the performance of a given manager.” – Evan Finkel
“DPI generated in a chaotic environment is sort of similar to TVPI generated in a chaotic environment. It’s great it happened, but let’s contextualize it properly and don’t overweight DPI when you’re evaluating managers.” – Evan Finkel
“In venture, we don’t look at IRR at all because manipulating IRR is far too easy with the timing of capital calls, credit lines, and various other levers that can be pulled by the GP.” – Evan Finkel
Inspired by John Felix in our recent episode together, as LPs, we often get pitches where GPs claim they’re an N of 1. That they’re the only team in the venture world who has something. Usually it’s the fact that they have brand-name co-investors. Or they run a community. Or they have an operating background, like John says below. And it isn’t that unlike the world of founders pitching VCs.
The truth is most “unfair advantages” are more commonplace than one might think. Even after one hears 50 GP pitches, one can get a pretty good grasp of the overlap.
For the purpose of this blogpost, the goal is to help the emerging LP who has yet to get to 50-100 pitches. And for the GP who hasn’t seen that many other pitches to know what the rest of the market is like. Obviously, the world of venture shifts all the time. What’s unique today is commonplace tomorrow.
For the sake of this post, and to make sure I’m not using some words too liberally, let’s define a few terms I will use quite often in this blogpost:
Product: A fully differentiated edge that an emerging manager/firm has. In other words, a must-have, if the firm is to succeed.
Feature: A partially differentiated edge, if at all, an edge. In many cases, this may just be table stakes to be an emerging manager today. In other words, a nice-to-have or expected-to-have.
Networks
Product
Feature
Differentiated community (high/consistent frequency of engagement)
Alumni network (school or company)
Downstream investors that prioritize your signals
In-person events
Keeper test
Virtual events
Co-investors
Networks, in many ways, are synonymous with your ability to source. It’s the difference in a lot of ways from co-investing versus investing before anyone else (versus investing after everyone else). The latter of which is least desirable for an LP looking for pure-play venture and risk capital.
The quickest check is simply an examination of numbers. LinkedIn or Twitter followers. Newsletter subscribers. Podcast subscribers. Community members. While it’s helpful context, it’s also simply not enough.
Here’s a simple case study. Someone who has 5,000 followers on LinkedIn with hundreds of people engaging with their content in a meaningful way is usually more interesting than beat someone who has 20,000 followers on LinkedIn, who only has 10s of engagements. Even better if one generates a substantial amount of deal flow with their content alone.
One thing that is hard to evaluate without doing an incredible amount of diligence is your founder network referring other founders to you. From one angle, it’s table stakes. From another, true referral flywheels are powerful. In the former, purely having it on your pitch deck without additional depth makes that section of the deck easily skippable.
One of my favorite culture tests is Netflix’s Keeper test. That if a team member were to get laid off or fired, would you fight to keep them or be relieved? The best folks, you would fight to keep. And as such, one of my favorite questions during diligence to ask the breakout / top founders in each GPs’ portfolios is: If, gun to head, you had to fire all your investors from your cap table and only keep three, which three would you keep and why?
Do note I differentiate breakout and top founders. They’re not mutually exclusive, but sometimes you can be brilliant and do everything right and things still might not work out. But smart people will keep at it and start a new company. And maybe it was a smaller exit the first time, but the second or third time, their business may really take off. Of course, sometimes I don’t have the same amount of time to diligence each GP as an LP with a team, so I generally ask the question: If all of your portfolio founders were to drop what they’re currently doing regardless of outcome, and start a new business, who are the top 2-3 people you would back again without hesitation?
At the end of the day, for networks, it’s all about attention. It’s not about who you know, but about how well you know them AND who you know that TRUSTS what you know. In an era, where there is more and more noise and information everywhere, a wealth of information leads to a poverty of attention. But if you have a strong foothold on founders’ and/or investors’ attention in one way or another, you have something special.
Experience/expertise
Product
Feature
Early hire at a unicorn company + Grew a key metric by many multiples
Hired top operators who’ve gone on to change the world
Experience at a larger firm where you didn’t lead rounds / fight for deals
Independent board member
Experience only matters here where there are clear differentiations that you’ve seen and can recognize excellence. In a broader sense, having an operating background is unfortunately table stakes. As John mentioned, any generalities are.
While strong experiences help you source, its main draw is that it impacts the way you pick and win deals. Only those who have experience recognizing excellence (working with or hiring) know the quality in which A-players operate. Others can only imagine what that may look like. That’s why if you’re going to brag that you’re a Xoogler (or insert any other alumni), LPs are going to care which vintage you were at Google. A 2003 Xoogler is more likely to have that discerning eye than a 2023 Xoogler. The same is true for schools. Being a college dropout from a Harvard and Stanford is different from dropping out of college at a two-year program. Not that there’s anything wrong with the latter, but you must find other ways to stand out if so.
Given a large pool of noise when it comes to titles, it’s for that reason I love questions like: “What did you do in your last role that no one else with that title has done?”
Additionally, when it comes to references, positive AND negative references are always better than neutral references. Even better is that you stay top of mind for your founders regularly. A loose proxy, while not perfect, is roughly 2-3 shoutouts per year in your founders’ monthly updates. It takes a willingness to be helpful and for the founders to recognize that you’ve been helpful.
Process
Product
Feature
Response time/speed
Some generic outline of an investment process
Evidence of a prepared mind
Doing diligence
Asking questions during diligence most others don’t know how to
Yes, response time (or speed in getting back to a founder, or anyone for that matter) is a superpower. It’s remarkably simple, but incredibly hard to execute at scale. By the time, you get to hundreds of emails per week, near impossible, without a robust process. One of my favs to this day happens to be Blake Robbins’ email workflow who’s now at Benchmark.
Now I’m not saying one should rush into a deal, or skip diligence, but making sure people aren’t ghosted in the process matter immensely. As my buddy Ian Park puts it, it’s better for a founder or an LP to know that a GP is working on it than to not feel heard.
You’ve probably heard of the “prepared mind.” The idea that one proactively looks for solutions for a given problem as a function of their lived experiences, research, and analyses over the years.
Its origin probably goes as far back as Louis Pasteur, but I first heard it popularized in venture by the folks at Accel. Anyone can say they have a prepared mind. From an LP’s perspective, we can’t prove that you do or don’t have it outside of you just saying it in a pitch meeting. That’s why a trail of breadcrumbs matter so much. Most people describe it as a function of their track record or past operating experiences. Unfortunately, there may be a large attribution to hindsight bias or revisionist’s history. Being brutally honest with yourself of what was intentional and what was lucky or accidental is a level of intellectual honesty I’ve seen many LPs really appreciate. As an example, I’d really recommend you hearing what Martin Tobias has to say on that topic.
But the best way to illustrate a prepared mind is easier than one thinks. But it also requires starting today. Content. Yes, you can tweet and post on social media or podcast. But I’d probably rank long-form content at the top.
Public long-form writing (or production in general) is arduous. The first draft is rarely perfect. Usually far from it. With the attentive eye and the cautious mind, you go back to the draft again and again until it makes sense. Sometimes, you may even get third parties to comment and revise. Long-form is like beating and refining iron until it’s ready to be made into a blade. And once it’s out, it is encased in amber. A clear record of preparation.
In closing
Pat Grady had a great line on the Invest Like the Best podcast recently. “If your value prop is unique, you should be a price setter not a price taker, meaning your gross margins should be really good. A compelling value prop is a comment on high operating margins. You shouldn’t need to spend a lot on sales and marketing. So the metrics to highlight would be good new ARR/S&M, LTV:CAC ratios, payback periods, or percent of organic to paid growth.”
In a similar way, as a venture firm, if your value prop is truly unique, you’re a price setter. You can win greater ownership and set valuation/cap prices. If your value prop is compelling, the quality of your sourcing engine should be second to none, not just from being present online, but from the super-connectors in the industry, be it other investors, top-tier founders, or subject-matter experts.
Of course, all of the above examples are only ones that recently came to mind. The purpose of this blog is for creative construction and destruction. So if you have any other examples yourself, do let me know, and I can retroactively add to this post.
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The views expressed on this blogpost are for informational purposes only. None of the views expressed herein constitute legal, investment, business, or tax advice. Any allusions or references to funds or companies are for illustrative purposes only, and should not be relied upon as investment recommendations. Consult a professional investment advisor prior to making any investment decisions.
Dave McClure has been a Silicon Valley entrepreneur and investor for over 25 years. He has invested in hundreds of startups around the world, including 10+ IPOs and 40+ unicorns (Credit Karma, Twilio, SendGrid, Lyft, The RealReal, Talkdesk, Grab, Intercom, Canva, Udemy, Lucid, GitLab, Reddit, Stripe, Bukalapak).
Prior to launching PVC in 2019, he was the founding partner of 500 Startups, a global VC firm with $1B AUM that has invested in over 2,500 companies and 5,000 founders across 75 countries. Dave created 20 VC funds under the 500 brand and invested in 20 other VC funds around the world.
Dave began his investing career at Founders Fund where he made seed-stage investments in 40 companies, resulting in 4 unicorns and 3 IPOs. He led the Credit Karma seed round in 2009 (acq INTU, over 400X return). His $3M portfolio returned more than $200M (~65X) in under 10 years.
Before he became an investor, Dave was Director of Marketing at PayPal from 2001-2004. He was also the founder/CEO of Aslan Computing, acquired by Servinet in 1998. Dave graduated from the Johns Hopkins University (BS, Engineering / Applied Mathematics).
[00:00] Intro [03:37] How did Narnia inspire the start of Dave’s entrepreneurship? [08:32] On the brink of bankruptcy [11:42] The lesson Dave took away from his first acquisition [13:19] What did Dave do that no one else did as a marketing director? [16:06] What do most people fail to appreciate about secondaries? [22:31] The 3 bucket method for secondaries [28:46] How much do fund returners matter for secondaries? [33:01] When do LPs typically think about selling fund secondaries? [42:04] What are two questions that Dave asks to see if a portfolio is good for a secondary? [46:10] Why is it complicated if a GP wants to buy an LP’s stake? [55:03] When do most funds return 1X? 2-3X? [57:13] Underwriting VC vs PE secondaries [1:01:49] How do institutional LPs react to VC secondaries? [1:07:01] The founding story of Practical VC [1:15:36] Closing Josh Kopelman in Fund I [1:18:47] How often does the PayPal Mafia get together? [1:23:49] What’s the most expensive lessons Dave learned over the years? [1:27:38] Thank you to Alchemist Accelerator for sponsoring! [1:28:29] If you enjoyed the episode, would deeply appreciate you sharing with one other friend!
