Ben Choi from Next Legacy joins David on El Pack to answer your questions on how to build a venture capital fund. We bring on 3 GPs at VC funds to ask 3 different questions.
Gilgamesh Ventures’ Miguel Armaza, also host of the incredible Fintech Leaders podcast, asks Ben what is the timing of when a GP should consider raising a Fund III.
Similarly, but not the same, Strange Ventures’ Tara Tan asks when an LP backs a Fund I, how do they know that this Fund I GP will last till Fund III.
Arkane Capital’s Arkady Kulik asks how one should think about building an LP community, especially as he brings in new and different LP archetypes into Arkane’s ecosystem.
Ben manages over $3.5B investments with premier venture capital firms as well as directly in early stage startups. He brings to Next Legacy a distinguished track record spanning three decades in the technology ecosystem.
Ben’s love for technology products formed the basis for his successful venture track record, including pre-PMF investments in Marketo (acquired for $4.75B) and CourseHero (last valued at $3.6B). He previously ran product for Adobe’s Creative Cloud offerings and founded CoffeeTable, where he raised venture capital financing, built a team, and ultimately sold the company.
Ben is an alum and Board Member of the Society of Kauffman Fellows (venture capital leadership) and has also served his community on the Board of Directors for the San Francisco Chinese Culture Center, Children’s Health Council, Church of the Pioneers Foundation, and IVCF.
Ben studied Computer Science at Harvard University before Mark Zuckerberg made it cool and received his MBA from Columbia Business School. Born in Peoria, raised in San Francisco, and educated in Cambridge, Ben now lives in Los Altos with his wife, Lydia, three very active sons, and a ball python.
[00:00] Intro [05:05] Ben’s 2025 Halloween costume [06:44] Jensen Huang’s leather jackets [07:24] Jensen Huang’s answer to Ben’s one question [10:05] Enter Miguel, Gilgamesh Ventures, Fintech Leaders [14:43] What are good signals an LP looks for before a GP raises a Fund III? [22:35] Why does Ben say ‘established’ starts at Fund IV? [25:08] Who’s the audience for Miguel’s podcast? [27:52] In case you want more like this… [28:32] Enter Tara and Strange Ventures [32:46] How does Ben know a Fund I will become a Fund III? [36:53] How does Ben know if a GP will want to build an enduring career? [40:58] How does Tara share a future GP she’d like to work with to Ben? [42:43] Marriage and divorce rates in America [43:34] What should a Fund I do to institutionalize? [46:28] Should you share LP updates to current or prospective LPs? [48:57] Enter Arkady and Arkane Capital [51:09] How does one think through LP-community fit? [1:01:31] What’s Arkady’s favorite board game? [1:03:08] Ben’s last piece of advice to GPs [1:09:50] My favorite Ben moment on Superclusters
“The dance of fundraising is when you do have [your thesis], the LP has to figure out is this a rationalization of the past or is it actually what happened? Was this known at the time? Because if it was, we can have some confidence in the future going forward. But if it was just a rationalization of some randomness, then it’s hard to know if Fund IV or V or VI will benefit from the same pattern.” — Ben Choi
On solo GPs bringing in future partners by Fund III… “The future unidentified partner is the largest risk that we have to decide to accept. So there actually isn’t a moment where we decide this GP is going to be around for Fund III. It’s actually the dominating risk we look at and we get there, but it’s a preponderance of other things that we need to build our conviction so high that we’re willing to take that risk.” — Ben Choi
“It’s brutal. It’s a 30-year journey. For any GP who raises a single dollar from external LPs, it’s a 30-year journey.” — Tara Tan
“I don’t think anyone goes into this business to raise capital, but your ability to raise capital is ultimately what allows you to be in this business.” — Ben Choi
On community… “Your core question is how much diversity—in the technical term of diversity—can you tolerate before you lose the sense of community.” — Ben Choi
“Most letters from a parent contain a parent’s own lost dreams disguised as good advice.” — Kurt Vonnegut
“Fundraising is a journey of finding investors who want what you have to offer; it’s not convincing somebody to do something.” — Ben Choi
Stay up to date with the weekly cup of cognitive adventures inside venture capital and startups, as well as cataloging the history of tomorrow through the bookmarks of yesterday!
The views expressed on this blogpost are for informational purposes only. None of the views expressed herein constitute legal, investment, business, or tax advice. Any allusions or references to funds or companies are for illustrative purposes only, and should not be relied upon as investment recommendations. Consult a professional investment advisor prior to making any investment decisions.
It’s not every day one gets to sit down and experience a Chinese tea ceremony under a late afternoon Los Altos sun. Sitting across from me was a gentleman in a white tee who moonlighted as a tea connoisseur. As such, he was in the middle of passionately describing to me what was some of the best tea I’ve had to date.
“David, smell this blend three times. You’ll realize that each breath you take will smell completely different from the last.”
To my bewilderment, he was right.
As I handed the teapot back to him, he continued, “Now the first pour you always pour out. Here, we are just washing the tea leaves. But we use this opportunity to also coat the insides of your teacup with the flavors of this next tea.”
True to his word, he awakened the inner mold of my cup with the smoky liquid infused by leaves that had been aged longer than I’ve been alive. Then poured the first pour back onto the teapot with the lid on, creating a wet seal around the teapot. As a result, the leaves were washed. The aromas are concentrated in the pot. And the cup has been given time to get to know the tea.
When, finally, the teacup landed back in my hands, I could taste the unfiltered, rich, smoky, yet mellow aroma of a Wu Yi Shui Xian tea.
If I didn’t know any better, I’d never have guessed his “day” job was being an investor. Specifically, a pre-seed and seed deep tech investor.
Of course, you’re smart. Given the title of this blogpost, you didn’t come here to read about the intricacies of drinking tea. But about the intricacies of deep tech, which in the process of editing this piece, I realize deep tech happens to have the same initials as drinking tea. But that’s not only stretching it, but I digress.
The fine gentleman who sat across from me in a white tee, his name is Arkady Kulik, Co-Founding Partner of rpv, a fund dedicated to backing early-stage scientifically intensive teams. In other words, deep tech. Currently, the industry itself is highly fragmented. In Arkady’s words, “it’s like investing in IT in the 80s. But they’re all ventures that can completely reshape the landscape.”
As Arkady continued, he shared something else quite fascinating. “In software, you’re looking at a high market risk and low technological risk. In deep tech, it’s the exact opposite. We have a low market risk and high technological risk. The problem is not whether they can sell this to people, but rather whether they can build it.”
Naturally, as someone who spends little time looking into the deep tech world week to week, I had to double click on that. What followed was a conversation where I found myself wishing I could take notes faster.
Smelling the tea leaves
As a non-technical person, the biggest question for me has always been: How do you evaluate a deep tech deal?
To Arkady, it’s the entry point in price as a function of Technology Readiness Level. TRL, for short.
Source: rpv’s Investor Deck (and yes, Arkady gave me permission to share this)
“TRL is actually something that the team at NASA came up with. NASA has always had a lot of internal projects, and they needed some internal tool to evaluate the readiness of those projects.
“It was developed in the 1970s, but was formalized in the decade after. One through three on the TRL scale is all theory. They’re largely funded by the government through grants and such. Seven through nine on the scale is commercial, and covered by generalist VCs. Everything in between is in some form of a product development process. That’s where we come in.
Source: rpv’s Deck, citing NASA TRL levels
“To get the graph above, we take TRL levels on the X-axis and the historical round size data on the Y-axis. Then we looked at every single company, took the lowest and highest round in each vertical within deep tech, and mapped it out.”
While every firm’s “blue box” is different — and after learning about this, I do encourage every deep tech firm to go through such an exercise, rpv’s sweet spot is companies leveraging technologies TRL 3-6 whose round is shy of $1.5 million.
The first pour: Tea meets cup
After passing through the smell test, the first question Arkady tries to answer is always: Is it BS? “I look at every deck myself. No analyst. No associate.”
After Arkady looks at the deck, he then sends it to his team. “They give me one of three scores: green, yellow, or red. If it’s positive — meaning either green or yellow, I take the first meeting. We have 12 deal breakers, ranging everything from lack of ability to protect IP (it’s why we don’t do software deals) to tech, finance, or team conflicts of interest. If any of us in diligence raise a flag, we don’t continue. If not, we ask specific questions to the team.”
When meeting with the team, the question of founder resilience always comes up. Of course, every investor measures grit differently. I ask about excellence and scar tissue, but I was deeply curious as to what Arkady asks for.
“I try to gauge it from learning about founders’ past experiences (not necessarily professional ones),” he goes on, “I dig deeper on tough situations a founder has faced. Also proposing hypothetical scenarios about their fundraising or team dynamics help a lot in understanding that facet.”
Without a beat, I follow up, “For that, do you have any go-to questions?”
“Nothing formal. I try to find an experience in someone’s past that could be good grounds for showing resilience: competitive sports, PhD, previous startups, complicated and long-term projects in the corporation or something like that.
“For the hypothetical scenarios, I ask things like ‘What if you won’t gather the round?’ Or ‘What if your co-founder absolutely had to resign, what’s your action plan in the bus factor case?’
“It’s an area where you look at how they react, not just what they say. How does their body language change when they’re answering the question. It’s about the non-verbal signals. ‘Tell us an experience in the past and things didn’t go your way, and things were dragging.’ Was it when you applied to college? Or went for your PhD? Or when you were trying to go on a date with someone you liked?’
“Resilient people usually have some kind of Plan B. People who don’t have another plan and still try the same thing again and again are stubborn. We don’t seek stubbornness in entrepreneurs. We look for their ability to be honest with themselves and other people.”
The second pour: Tasting the depth
“If there are no red flags after meeting the founders, then we move into scientific due diligence. We ask everything from deep scientific questions (on isotopes or wavelengths) to the feasibility of the product — essentially a peer review on a paper by our internal, but also external scientists and advisors. The latter to get a truly unbiased opinion.
“Then we do a deeper diligence process with a scorecard of 35 items from team composition to their stage of development to their ability to protect IP to the availability of competition, each rated twice. Once by myself, and another by our advisors and venture partners. Then we average the points out for each of the 35 items and compare against our thresholds. If it’s a green light, we make an investment decision. If yellow, we follow up with the target venture’s team to see if they have a good answer to our concerns. And if not, then we say no. If red, well, we also say no. Though we have yet to give a red final score after using the scorecard since they’ve all died during the extensive due diligence process.”
In our conversation, which eventually migrated to Zoom (with some people, you just never run out of things to ask), I postulated about the variability in venture firms using scorecards. There are strong reasons why you should or shouldn’t from both sides of the aisle. Both of which have generated great returns for their LPs.
Today, many of the top tier venture firms make outlier decisions based on gut. It’s the same reason why generational or succession planning at these top firms are so hard. Once the GP leaves or retires, the next generation have a hard time making the same investment decisions as the previous generations.
On the scorecard end of the spectrum, hedge funds are, by definition, firms who employ algorithmic discipline to generate alpha. On the venture side, you have Correlation Ventures, SignalFire, just to name a few. Seven years back, Social Capital’s Capital-as-a-Service, just to name a few. The last of which seemed to have been deprecated due to the inability to scale support for a portfolio of 500 startups, rather than the inefficacy of their “scorecard.” As you might suspect, a topic I’m quite fascinated about.
“We make our decisions based on scorecards,” Arkady reaffirmed, “And if you were to look at each one we’ve done, you’ll see that it’s rare that our team sees eye to eye. We disagree a lot. It’s an individual decision and we take it. And we never try to convince the other to change their score. We trust each other to give a score we believe in. For advisors, since we have many, we take the average of all their opinions. We also ask different advisors for each item on the scorecard. Some advisors are excellent in one area, but might not be fluent in another.
“The final thing I’ll say is that when something feels off, we say no. Even if the data shows green, but we’re unsure about the validity of the data, we still pass. One of the best pieces of advice I got around hiring is if you’re not sure about a hire, pass. It’s the same with investing.”
For Arkady, that is the weapon of their choice.
In closing
Between three calls and a tea ceremony, even then, we only touched the tip of the iceberg. One I’m likely to have many more questions for Arkady and my other friends who live and breathe in this space. It’s an exciting space. To be fair, even calling it all just one space is an understatement. It’s a permutation of many that’ll be segmented when the broader investment community starts to understand them all better. Myself included.
Looking forward to it all, and appreciate you, Arkady, for all the back and forth edits, lessons, and the tea!
Stay up to date with the weekly cup of cognitive adventures inside venture capital and startups, as well as cataloging the history of tomorrow through the bookmarks of yesterday!
The views expressed on this blogpost are for informational purposes only. None of the views expressed herein constitute legal, investment, business, or tax advice. Any allusions or references to funds or companies are for illustrative purposes only, and should not be relied upon as investment recommendations. Consult a professional investment advisor prior to making any investment decisions.
